Jennifer Killpack-Knutsen ([info]green_jenni) wrote,
@ 2007-02-02 18:59:00
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Entry tags:2007 utah legislature, choice issues, religion and politics, utah taliban

Calling all scripture enthusiasts
Since the anti-choice opinion is almost entirely based on religion and "God", I'd like to know what "God" has to say on the subject. Do you know of any scriptural reference that addresses abortion? Any that addresses at what stage of fetal development "God" determines is a life or at what stage of the interruption of that fetal development God would consider a murder?

I'd like to see  any scriptures that you know of either in the Bible or the 3 additional Mormon scriptures, or the Koran or Jewish scriptures.


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[info]green_jenni
2007-02-03 06:05 am UTC (link)
In a little preliminary research I found this:

http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=10366

Although the Hebrews were influenced by many of the laws of their Assyrian, Sumerian, and Babylonian neighbors, all of which forbade abortion, the Hebrew scriptures had no laws forbidding abortion, not a single one. This was chiefly because the Hebrews placed a higher value on women than did their neighbors. There are, however, some references to the termination of pregnancy. Exod. 21:22-25 says that if a pregnant woman has a miscarriage as a result of injuries she receives during a fight between two men, the penalty for the loss of the fetus is a fine; if the woman is killed, the penalty is "life for life." It is obvious from this passage that men whose fighting had caused a woman to miscarry were not regarded as murderers because they had not killed the woman. The woman, undeniably, had greater moral and religious worth than did the fetus, which was nothing more than a worthless glob of tissue, a meaningless, lifeless conglomeration of cells - contrary to antichoice people who consider it "human life."

There is also reference in the Mosaic law to what is now called "abortion on request" Num. 5:11-31 indicates that if a husband suspects his wife is pregnant by another man, the "husband shall bring his wife to the priest," who shall mix a drink intended to make her confess or be threatened with termination of her pregnancy if she has been unfaithful to her husband. In other words, the Jewish Church was directly involved in bringing about abortions for those countless Hebrew women who fell into this category referred to above. Yes, the Jewish priests actually performed the abortion on the women. The Bible is undeniably specific on this point. Of course, there are less intelligent biblical exegetes who interpret this in various other obviously erroneous ways. It is best not to consider their ignorant opinions in this matter.

Aside from these passages, the Bible does not deal with the subject of abortion. Although both Testaments generally criticize the practices of the Hebrews' neighbors, such as idol worship and prostitution, as well as various immoral acts committed in their own land, there is no condemnation or prohibition of abortion anywhere in the Bible in spite of the fact that techniques for inducing abortion had been developed and were widely used by the time of the New Testament.

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[info]green_jenni
2007-02-03 06:09 am UTC (link)
Myth: The Bible forbids abortion.

Fact: All Biblical arguments on abortion are indirect and open to debate.

Summary

The Bible does not comment directly on abortion, even though abortion was practiced even then. All Biblical arguments on abortion are indirect and open to interpretation, and debate continues even among the world's most respected theologians. Even so, the Bible seems to suggest in several places that the unborn are not endowed with the qualities or rights of personhood. In fact, the Jews, who are famous for their preservation of tradition, have never considered abortion to be a sin.

The rest laid out here:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-bibleforbids.htm


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[info]green_jenni
2007-02-03 07:04 am UTC (link)

Liberated Christians
http://www.libchrist.com/other/abortion/contents.html

Beliefnet.com
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/120/story_12021_1.html

From:http://www.slate.com/?id=112974

What the LDS Church didn't issue—and what its statements on abortion similarly avoid—is any statement about when life begins, and hence whether embryos constitute human life. Rather than referring to the Biblical commandment "Thou shalt not kill," the church's 1991 statement on abortion cited a scripture from The Doctrine and Covenants, a collection of revelations received by Joseph Smith, whom the church regards as its first prophet. The scripture reads, "Thou shalt not steal; neither commit adultery, nor kill, nor do anything like unto it." The phrase "like unto it" suggests that while most abortions are sinful, they are not quite the same as murder.

From: http://askgramps.org/abortion/does-mormonism-teach-at-what-exact-time-fetus-receives-its.php

"The exact time that the pre-mortal spirit enters the mortal body is not specified in divine revelation (See Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.1, BIRTH). Since it is not recorded, it may not be at the same time for every person. However, there is no doubt that the Savior appeared to the Nephites as a pre-mortal spirit on the day before his birth in Bethlehem. Thus, the life of the babe in Mary’s womb was sustained during that time by the life of the mother. Whether the spirit of the Savior was resident in the womb prior to his advent to the Nephites is not recorded.

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[info]memorycatcher
2007-02-03 08:47 am UTC (link)
There is only one reference in the bible that specifically discusses the value of a fetus as compared to its mother.

Exodus 21:22-25 says
22-25 "When there's a fight and in the fight a pregnant woman is hit so that she miscarries but is not otherwise hurt, the one responsible has to pay whatever the husband demands in compensation. But if there is further damage, then you must give life for life—eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

This means that the writers found more value in the life and welfare of the mother than it did the fetus.

If someone gives you the old testament is no longer valid argument, see me again. Have any biblical or dogmatic questions, see me also. I'm the master (ok, I studied this shit in college)

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[info]green_jenni
2007-02-03 09:30 am UTC (link)
Kewl! Thanks bunches. Glad to have an expert to call upon in mission to keep religion from from taking over my body . . .

:)

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A different view
(Anonymous)
2007-02-04 09:30 pm UTC (link)
I actually oppose it on grounds other than religious. I too believe, we are responsible for our decisions in life. When one makes the decision to do a certain act, there are consequences. BEFORE the abortion, one has ALREADY made a decision (except in certain cases like rape or incest). As one who has always wanted to raise a child, it bugs me that some would abuse such a privilege. There ARE options besides abortion too. And it is a little life form in there, just ask Scott Peterson.

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Re: A different view
[info]green_jenni
2007-02-05 02:14 am UTC (link)
Hi Anon,

It would be a lot friendlier if you could sign your posts with your name -- it can even be a made up name, if you prefer to keep your identity under wraps.

I'm sorry that you haven't had a chance to raise a child, but that doesn't mean that women should be punished for their sexuality.

Didn't know Scott Peterson was a scientist, I thought he was a homocidal maniac, unless you are refering to another Scott Peterson. But that brings up a really great point -- did you know that the leading cause of death for a pregnant woman these days is murder? Just another reason why a woman shouldn't be forced into pregnancy.

Anon, do you have any scriptures that define when "ensoulment" happens? I'd like to keep this thread on this post about religious reasonings behind abortion ban. I do have a few other posts that have threads that are more of a direct abortion debate.

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